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And then my aunt, my mom's younger sister came and we were traveling for like almost a month. And I took her all over the place, you know, like we came to Beijing, Shanghai, we went to the south, we went to Xi'an, Guilin, Hanzhou, we went to Hong Kong as well. It was like, I took her all over, like we did a whole circle, right? And then she was like, I understand you, that's what I told you. My recommendation would be you should come and dig them out by yourself. And the policies are very favorable and they're getting more favorable in spite of the, sometimes you don't feel it because you read the news and they make you feel some in another way. But the actual policies, they're getting more and more friendly. So I would advise people to actually get on a plane, come and check them out. This year marks the 50th anniversary of diplomatic relations between China and Brazil. Over the decades, the two countries have deepened cooperation across various fields, including trade, investment and tourism. In a significant move this year, both nations agreed to grant 10-year visas to each other's citizens for business, leisure and family visits. An exciting step aimed at enhancing bilateral economic cooperation. My name is Victor Mora, I'm from Sao Paulo, Brazil. I've been in China for almost 10 years now. I am one of the founders and partners at Lantau. And I'm currently on the director board of BRUSHAM, which is the Brazil-China Business Association. And I'm currently pursuing my master's degree in international relations at Tsinghua University. For the past few years, Victor has been actively engaged in cross-border trade, bridging businesses from China and Brazil, hoping to create new opportunities. Join our conversation as he shares his insights on navigating the complexities of the Chinese market as well as his journey in China. So Victor, what brought you to China in the first place? Wow, okay, we journeyed back to 2015. I was working the biggest IT company in Brazil in Latin America, it's called Movily Group. And later on, one of our clients was a Chinese startup. And they went to Brazil, we met in person, and six months later they posted a job description on social media. And then I just texted them, I was like, I'm interested, they're like, you're interested? I was like, yes, so come. And then there I was, 2016, there I was in Shanghai. Okay, that must have been a huge decision that you made back then, moving from your home country to another completely different culture. What were your initial impressions when you arrived in China? Were there any difficulties that you encountered? You know, it's funny that you say that because nowadays, you grow up, I mean, it's been almost 10 years, like you look back and you realize it definitely changed my life. Of course, it changed my life. I had a very comfortable life in Brazil and I could have stayed there, you know, like it would be fine. I would be totally fine. But nowadays, I look back and it did change everything for me, that decision, but it didn't feel like such a big decision back then. It just felt like, no, I got this opportunity, like, let's just try, you know? But the biggest difficulty, I mean, aside from the obvious one, which was the language, I didn't speak any Chinese when I came, but I think most people would say that. So I'm trying to bring something new, I think it's like, when you go to a new environment and you have two options, right? Either you close yourself in the shell and you protect yourself from that environment because it's new to you, or you try to blend in and learn and fit in, right? So as much as you can. And I'll say that I was the latter type. So I tried to like, when I stepped into China, I start to leave as much like a normal Chinese person that as I could. So from the food, from everything, and then the language came on later on. So I think the biggest difficulty is actually to actually blend in into a new society because it changes you. Culture is very, is this very deep thing we all have. And like, when you try to blend into another culture, it is very, is amazing process, but it's hard. It is hard. Yes, it is. And can you tell us about your current work? Okay, so Lantau, basically, nowadays, I'm one of the founders and I'm here, basically, I study, I basically full time studying, but the company operates in import export. There's two departments. We help Brazilian clients purchase all kinds of products from China. So we help them find these factories, negotiate the cargo inspections, the basics from international trade. And there's a second department that is now growing for us, which is on the agro sector. So agricultural commodities, which China is the biggest buyer of Brazilian agricultural commodities. We help some medium scale producers in Brazil to open the Chinese market. So basically, we make this bridge. And I wonder, based on your observation, what are some of the common challenges that Brazilian business people face when they want to enter the Chinese market or start a business in China? I think the first one is the one that happens previously to starting the decision is like these some sort of misconceptions some people might still have about China, especially people that never came here before. So and that is not all in the business field is in general, right? So this is the first one after they come once, most of the time, once they try to come, they come to join some expos like the Kenton Fair, like in Guangzhou, or like something like this. So that that is their first experience. So when they go there, and you see like, the big complex in there, in this case, in Guangzhou, right? They see the big cities like, oh, my God, nothing like I met like, yes, I told you, blah, blah, blah. And then later on, they open their mind a little bit. But the second difficulty, I think, would be in the beginning to understand and fight reliable partners in China, because even if they decide to open a company is like some of them might try to do it from a distance. And later on, understand a little bit how business is done in China. I think this is another thing. Like business in China is still very especially in trade when you go to like into the country to these factories and when not like still a lot of personal contact that is needed to devote some time to meet the person and create some personal relationship. And in this case, it's similar to Brazil. Brazilian people like to make friends before they do business, too, in my opinion. And it's the same for China in this more traditional industries. I think the big cities, the tech industry that is changing the tech industry in my opinion, they work more or less the same all around the world. But in this industry industry to get more to the traditional mindset of business. And in this case, China has a very unique mindset on that areas. Like if you're not here and if you don't speak the language, like it's very hard for you to play this game well, you know, or find somebody reliable to do it for you. So I think long answer is short, like the challenge will be, first of all, open your mind to what the Chinese market can offer and the second to learn how to play the game here, which is different or find somebody reliable to play the game for you. These are the two biggest challenges for sure. So what unique opportunities does the Chinese market offer to Brazilian business owners? I think, well, again, it really depends on what you do, right? Which industry do you operate? But like let's talk about normal products, for example, I think that the Chinese consumer market is well, definitely the biggest in the world. And in recent decades, we all know how these online shopping platforms developed in China, like Taobao being the obvious example, but we have many, right? And if you get inside, there is a huge consumer base and you can access. But then I'll make my previous point. I was emphasizing it again to work on this, to play this game here in China. For example, the competition is really strong. So nowadays, there's no viable way to enter the Chinese consumer market on the budget. Either you have to invest because you cannot just come here like I'm going to start small. It doesn't work that well for foreign companies. In my experience, my industry is another one. I usually work with exports from China to Brazil. And the imports in commodities, as I mentioned, they don't go to the end consumer. So I don't work with these platforms. But I have friends that do. And they actually work with foreign companies entering the Chinese market. And they tell me, you need to have money to invest. And then in Brazil right now, it's a few people would have, like few business owners, businessmen and women would have this capital to invest. But the market base, the potential is huge. And like Chinese people, they like to buy stuff, they do, they do. And it's so convenient here. So you need to be able to make the investment to enter the market. And now besides work, you made a comeback to campus for further study. What motivated you to pursue a master's degree at Tsinghua University? My undergrad was business, business administration in general, which I did in Brazil. And I never thought about going back to study later on, to be honest with you. I never thought so. But then 2022, I was in China until July. Then I went back home and I stayed there for like nine months. And by the end of 2022, I literally saw like a post from the Chinese embassy in Brazil that there was still enough time to apply for scholarships or for master's or whatever. And then I just saw that post on social media and I was like, hmm, should I? And then I started to research and I was like, why would I study? And then I was like, nowadays I love international relations, which was not the case before. I learned to love it over time. But basically then I applied. I wanted to come to Beijing. As I mentioned, I was in Shanghai before. So I had an interest of coming to Beijing, changing environments. And Tsinghua University is one of the most prestigious universities in China. So how do you like your campus life so far? Oh, campus is amazing. Campus is so good. They spoil us very much, you know what I mean? Everything is taken care of. Campus has everything inside. It's like a bubble, you know? Yeah. I always mention this to some of my foreign friends at Tsinghua that there is their first time in China and they come directly to Tsinghua and I was like, oh my God, I was like, just remember, Tsinghua is a bubble, you know what I mean? Because they create an environment there that only exists there. Everything is so, you have everything you need, so concentrated, you know what I mean? And like, of course, they make it easier. You do a very good job in making your life convenient so you can focus on studying, right? So yeah, I'm very grateful, to be honest, to have this opportunity because it's really good. That's all I put in briefly. And how has your study and research at Tsinghua University influenced the work that you do? I think what helps a lot is that if like, for example, as I mentioned, I worked in international trade, right? And I study international relations and actually these things and I work, I have been working between Brazil-China relations for a long time, to be fair, because business is one side of it. You don't have to be the ambassador or like a diplomat to be able to operate. Actually there's many forces that go into bilateral relations between countries and business is one of them. So if you're part of the business community, as I am like the Brazilian business community in China, you're already part of Brazil-China relations. But then I had the pleasure and the privilege to start traveling since I was very young. And my coming to China and then my company and now with Tsinghua's international relations, international trade are all fields that need you, demand you to travel. So I am just like, after a while, you understand, like you travel more and more and more and start to more or less get a grasp of how the world works. And also you understand that you're so far away from understanding everything. But then international relations, the field of academia helped me sort of understand better this practical experience that I have. Because before I was just me traveling, going to different places and talking to different people, right? But then you see the difference in how countries interact with each other, how the world sort of works in a sense. And then when you sit down and study international relations, you're like, oh, there's a theory behind it. And I mean, like you can put some academic knowledge under your practical experience and they complement each other very well. And now you speak such fluent Chinese. So how did you learn the language? I don't know say that. I didn't know anything. And I was never a full-time, I didn't study Chinese in a classroom for a long time. Most of what I know I just learned over time. And since 2018, when I started to get into like import export, which is where my company does, then you constantly go to smaller cities in China. I was living in Shanghai before, right? So you constantly go to smaller cities or at least smaller than Shanghai. When you go to these places, if you don't speak Chinese, it's really hard to communicate. I think in Shanghai you can still get along just with English, but like if you leave the big cities in China, it's still like most people don't speak English and then just force me to learn. So I think like I learned by necessity, number one. Later on, I learned that I actually like Chinese, the language itself is amazing, it's fascinating. Later on, I've discovered that, but like the starting point to be honest, the starting point was necessity. Later I got to like love the process too. How about Beijing? How do you like the city? I think what I like about Beijing the most is that Beijing has a sort of a soul of its own. What do you mean the soul? I'll try to explain, this is very abstract, right? I think Beijing has an environment that is unique to Beijing. Like for example, we're walking at the Houtons, the Houtonshi Channel right over there. This is an architecture and a sort of environment that is created that you can only see here. You don't see this anywhere else in this style, not only the architecture and the way I feel there, I just think it's very unique to Beijing. And Shanghai was there for many times, many, many years, but right now Shanghai is becoming super, super modern. And I have the feeling that that is not a bad thing. I'm just saying that modern cities, they start to become similar, you know? But Beijing still retains this essence that I like. Okay, so you've been here for almost a decade now. What's the most important lesson that you've learned from your experiences in China? If I have to choose one, I would say China opened my mind to a lot of things, like a lot. But one thing that I think if I had to choose one thing to point out would be that for example in Brazil, and I think this is true anywhere you go, like you grew up in a certain environment and in a certain society that will tell you more or less what is right or wrong according to the values of that society, right? And in this case, there are big differences between Brazil and China in that aspect, right? And when you go to another place that has different sort of values, that has different rules and ways of doing things, being on the government side, society side, everything, right? It's just a different environment. When you come here and you also realize that, oh, it also works. Because you grew up in a certain environment, I think that is the right one. And you go to another place that is completely different, that challenges a lot of the things that you've been told since you were a kid. And it also works, you know? So there is an alternative. Life is not that easy. You know, it's not about like, this is right or this is wrong. No, there are different ways of doing things. And these different ways might also work sometimes. Might also work sometimes better than what you used to or worse or different, but there are options. There are alternatives. There's no one universal truth, you know? So I think this will be the biggest lesson in terms of when you're dealing with not only China, when you're dealing with a different culture, right? You go there and you will see things that might challenge some of the assumptions you have about life, about the world. And you just have to be in peace with the fact that it's different and it works as well. Interesting. So what tips would you offer to those who are looking to start a business in China? What advice would you give them? I would say that first of all, come here. China just implemented a recent policy, like this is a recent thing. There's a long list of countries that can come in visa free for like 14 days or something like this. And also in Brazil's case, we need a visa, but there's still like we now we can get like 10 year visas, business and tourists. So like it's very convenient to come. So my first my first point would be come, you know, get get your visa, get your ticket, save some money and come to check it out. Just to check it out first. No, no commitment to anything. Come to join an event, for example. Look for an expo, like a trade fair on your industry. China works a lot with the Zhanlan, right? So the trade shows just find one that resonates with what you want to do and see what the Chinese companies are doing in that area first before you realize what you what you want to do and then and then see see where the opportunity is. There's a lot of opportunities here. The competition is strong, of course. But there is room for everybody. I do believe that. But again, my first and most tip, don't try to figure it out from abroad. Come. You need to come and see it. Otherwise, it's really hard. So come first, come first and do some research, do some research. But yes, exactly. Just come can come from tourists. OK, you know, you go there to see, take a look around, talk to people, you know, and then and then you might find something interesting. That was Victor Mora, a young Brazilian entrepreneur, sharing his journey in China with us today. For the past 15 years, China has been Brazil's largest trading partner. And we look forward to seeing more collaboration between the two countries in the near future.