RTCPODS - China English Podcast Hub

To understand China, if the person or if someone really wants to understand China, it's important to see China from a historic perspective and study Chinese philosophy, Chinese thought. And the most interesting thing is first you have this modern China and it's important to visit China and keep in touch with the Chinese people to know and also to understand what China is nowadays. But also it's important to have a history background, study Chinese history, study Chinese philosophy because through this way you can understand that several aspects of the Chinese society, Chinese governance. That was Evandro Menezes de Cavallu, a Brazilian scholar with a deep passion for China studies. Over the past decade, Evandro has paid numerous visits to China, immersing himself in research, teaching and fostering meaningful dialogue between the two nations. He is also the recipient of the 2023 Chinese Government Friendship Award, the country's highest honour given to foreign experts. My name is Evandro Menezes de Cavallu, I am an associate professor, international law professor at the Loy School of the Fluminense Federal University, UFF, and also international law professor at the FPGV, Jetulu Vargas Foundation School of Law. And also I am a Wu Tong Chair Professor at the Beijing Language and Cultural University. In China, he's better known as Gao Wanyong, a name given to him by his Chinese teacher when he first started learning the language before he travelled to China for the first time. She said that my surname is a little bit complicated to the Chinese people because of the pronunciation. Cavallu, this lu could be a little bit difficult. In the beginning, I told her Cavallu is a tree in English oak. And she said no, no, we don't give us a name based on the translation, but the sound of the name or the surname. And at first, she proposed Gao Yong because of Cavallu. And this said Gao is tall, young, brave, maybe, you know, it's like a warrior. And then she said, you are a professor. And then she decided to add, when? Culture. A combination of culture and courage. This name suits him perfectly. And I am in China frequently. Some friends, people call me Professor Gao or close friends Wanyong. And then I know it's me. That's nice. Born in Recife, a vibrant cultural and gastronomic hub in northeastern Brazil, Ivandro was admitted to one of the country's oldest law schools in his hometown. It was during his second year in an international law course that his interest in diverse legal cultures began to take root. This curiosity led him to dive deeper into the field, eventually earning his doctorate at the University of São Paulo. And at that time, my supervisor was Professor Luis Olavu Baptiste. And then he was judge of the appellate body of the WTO, the World Trade Organization. And my PhD thesis was focused on the role of the language and the interpretation of the treaty. And this is an interesting aspect, because we know that the international system generally we use English as the main language, the international language. Also, of course, we have some other languages that are important in international relations like Spanish, like French, maybe Chinese is becoming important more and more. But the fact is that the international law generally speaking is based on English as a language used by the actors. And the question is how the international law, the content of the rules, the content of the legal norms could be changed if we use all the language to translate it or even to negotiate it. And this is the reason why I started to be interested in different legal cultures. He delved into various legal systems, including those in Turkish and Indian contexts. And then I decided to focus on China. Ultimately he decided to shift his focus to China. Because of many reasons, but the fact is China is the second largest economy in the world, the largest trade partner in Brazil. And also China has a very beautiful culture and also a member of the Security Council of the United Nations. So there are several reasons why I decided to be a kind of a specialist in China. The scholar recalls that in the past, China's story was predominantly told through the lens of Western media. And these narratives played a significant role in shaping the world's perception of China. So if you wanted to have knowledge about China, actually you had this knowledge through a Western perspective, this is the reason why I decided to go to China by myself to build my perceptions, my interpretations. His curiosity about China eventually led him across the globe to this ancient yet rapidly developing land. His journey began in the metropolis of Shanghai. Initially he was attached to the law school at Shanghai University of Finance and Economics. Later, his expertise caught the attention of Fu Dan University, which invited him to conduct research on BRICS studies. But Evandro's connection to China didn't end after a three-year exchange. Since his time in Shanghai, Evandro has returned to China multiple times. Most recently, he spent nearly a year at Peking University as a senior visiting scholar, further deepening his academic ties to the country. Brazil is a huge country as well, and I'm from the northeast. Despite the cultural differences and language barriers, Evandro says he adapted quickly to the new environment. He believes this ease of transition may be rooted in his upbringing. I think the majority of the people from the northeast, and maybe also from the north, they don't see themselves completely as a Western people. Of course, we had a huge influence from Portugal, but Portugal in the past had an influence from Arabic countries. And also we had, because of the slavery, an influence from African countries as well, and we also had the influence of the native people. So it's a landscape completely, you know, in terms of the human geography is completely mixed. But the fact is, it's very diverse. And then, maybe because of this, we are more resilient to experience a different kind of environment, cultural environment, and I think this was a huge advantage for me. In retrospect, Evandro believes that his research and experiences in China have broadened his worldview, offering him new perspectives not only on China, but also on his own country. Research China opened me new possibilities to understand the world and also my country, because I had the opportunity to keep in touch with different perspectives, different theories, you know, different concepts that Western people and even us from Latin America, we are not so familiar, especially here, because here in Latin America countries, the influence of the Western countries is so high. But when I started to research China and live in China, I had the opportunity to have access to different news from Africa, Asia countries, more news about Arabic countries as well. So this fact enlarge our worldview. This is important. At both of his institutions in Rio de Janeiro, Evandro brings these insights to the classroom. Enriching his lectures with a broader perspective on China. Over the years, he has also observed a shift in how his students perceive the country. He recalls that several years ago, when he asked his students about China, their responses were often rooted in stereotypes. Today, however, young Brazilians are much more aware of China's growing influence, from e-commerce giants to electric vehicles and popular messaging apps. Brazilian new generation, they are more open to understand the world in its totality, not only the Western world. And this is a good news. So my students in my classes on international law, and I offer classes on China in my both institutions. And since 2016, my course on China has a lot of students, 30, 35, 40 depend on the class. And in Brazil, this is a huge number in a law school. But I can see that there is a difference now, first, because there are more news about China published by Brazilian media and online media, et cetera. Second, there are more people-to-people exchange. A lot of Chinese delegations come to Brazil, and the Brazilians go to China. Several Brazilian students now are attending Chinese courses in Chinese universities, et cetera. So a lot of business people, you know, is going to China to visit China to establish contact with the Chinese companies. They are interested in developing some partnership. Also, there are a lot of Chinese investments in Brazil. We have here in Brazil around 500 Chinese companies. So, you know, the presence of China in Brazil is completely different if we compare 10 years ago, 15, 20 years ago. So this is the reason why the new generation is aware of all the importance of China to Brazil. And this is a fact. For future research projects, Evandro is also interested in exploring how technology plays a role in Chinese governance. China became a leading country in technology and artificial intelligence. And I would love to understand how, for example, the judiciary power in China is using technology to improve the legal decisions, considering that China has a one point four billion people. And this is interesting. And all the judiciary powers in the world is discussing this, you know, the use of artificial intelligence, et cetera, also to improve my knowledge in how China government is using technology to improve the participation of the people in the decision making process. And, you know, China became an important part of my life. I really love to read Chinese literature, to listen to Chinese music. It's interesting, you know, I like Chinese operands to listen to here at home. Yeah, it sounds a little bit traditional, but I also love the contemporary scenario. The music scene in China is amazing and the Chinese contemporary art is lovely. Evangelos' connection to China has deepened over time. Besides art and culture, he notes that Chinese philosophy has also left a lasting mark on his daily life. For example, the wisdom of Confucius, such as the saying, in the company of three, there is always something to learn from one of them. And the principle of Zhongyong has deeply inspired him. Often translated as the doctrine of the mean, Zhongyong is about finding balance and moderation in all aspects of life. It highlights the importance of avoiding extremes and seeking harmony in thoughts, actions and behaviours. When asked about his most memorable experience in China, Yavandro recalls an emotional moment earlier this year at the prestigious Great Hall of the People in Beijing, where he was honoured with the Chinese Government Friendship Award. It was not an individual achievement that I got. In that moment, he couldn't help but reflect on the many Chinese friends who had supported him throughout his journey. Silently, he expressed his gratitude to each of them. Since the first year when I was completely, you know, a person that had no experience in Chinese culture in terms of, you know, living there and until now where I have some also to share to some older people that intend to live in China or visit China, et cetera. So this was a moment in my life that honours me a lot. And in a certain way, some of all my experiences, this was amazing for me. I will never forget. Yavandro can't wait to share his new book with Brazilian readers, titled China, Tradition and Modernity in the Governance of the Country. This book, written in Portuguese, took him five years to complete, especially during the pandemic. He had the time to dive deep into Chinese history and philosophy, which gave him a more holistic view of China. The author hopes to bring greater understanding of the country's governance and political system, particularly to those unfamiliar with its historical and cultural context. The Chinese government is more and more confident with its cultural roots, confident with its political thinking, Chinese thoughts, Chinese concepts. And if you try to understand the Chinese governance in this century, 21st century, as a foreigner, you need to read and understand Chinese history and Chinese philosophy. If you don't understand this, you won't understand Chinese governance in this century. Looking back, Yavandro reflects that having a resource like this when he first arrived in China in 2013 would have made all the difference. He hopes to see his book translated into Spanish and English in the future, helping others get a clearer picture of China much more quickly.